Running: Marathoning For Mortals

EnduranceRadio.com

February 14, 2005

<<Tim Bourquin>>:  “Welcome back to www.EnduranceRadio.com.  Thanks for joining us for another interview today. 

We’re going to be speaking with John Bingham and Jenny Hadfield.  They’re the co-authors of Marathoning for Morals.  They have split their expertise into two different areas that they’re going to talk about and how they each added those different areas of expertise to their book.

A couple of things first; make sure that you check out the Race of the Day, which is the Wild Miles Relay.  It’s May 21^st and 22^nd and its teams of ten racing against each other from the desert floor to the seaside city of Chula Vista.  Its about 200 miles over 24 hours and you can take a look at more information about that race by clicking on the Race of the Day link right below the link to this audio interview.

So John and Jenny, thanks very much for joining us today.  I appreciate you both taking time to talk to us.

<<John Bingham>>: “Thanks for having us.”

<<Tim Bourquin>>: “We don’t do too many interviews where we get two people on the line but I think it’s especially apropos in this case because you’re both the co-authors of this book, Marathoning for Morals.  So John, I guess we’ll start with you.  Talk about what led up to you writing this book with Jenny?”

<<John Bingham>>: “Well I’ll just give you the shortest possible story, which is I didn’t start running until I was in my mid 40’s, 240 pounds, smoker, drinker and through just kind of a fate it got me a column in Runner’s World magazine talking about what’s it like to make that transformation from fat, slow guy to thin slow guy I guess.  I’d written a book called ‘The Courage to Start’, and then another book called ‘No Need for Speed’, and when they asked for a book about marathon and half-marathon training I just knew that I did not have the expertise to do it.  I knew I didn’t have the background and the coaching to do that.  My own coach, Jenny Hadfield, I was lucky enough to talk her into coming in and doing the real expert part about that, so I kind of did the inspiration, ‘Yes sir, you can get out there, you can do it.  Anybody can be a long distance athlete.’  Then the coach, Jenny, came in and was able to short them how to do it.  

<<Tim Bourquin>>: “Jenny, is this book for a beginner, or someone who has been running for a while?”

<<Jenny Hadfield>>: “Both.  It’s geared towards the everyday runner.  It’s obviously not for the Olympic athlete, but its there for people that what to either improve their time or just get out there and try.  My background comes from always wanting to learn how to run but never really being able to figure that out as a youth, and it wasn’t until a group of my co-workers, I was doing an internship at a corporate fitness center up in Milwaukee, and a couple of my co-workers said, ‘Come on, we can do this.’  We trained as a group, we gradually increased it and I actually fell in love with the training aspect of that and learned how to do that more and more each season.  I wanted to share that aspect of it that it is possible for an everyday person to go out there and achieve that they’ve always wanted to achieve, as well as improve their time; so it’s for everybody.”

<<Tim Bourquin>>:  “Now you kind of see at the beginning of the year a lot of new year’s resolutions and people start to get into health a little bit more, but then you see on the message boards that the gym start to quiet down by about February.  John, from your prospective, how can somebody keep up their motivation from these new year’s resolutions and these great ideas they have that they tend to lose by the end of January?”

<<John Bingham>>: “Well, I’ll work a little bit backwards on that, because what makes lose that motivation or lose that incentive is that they often have very unrealistic expectations of what they’re going to achieve.  The advantage I had of being so fat and so slow and a drunk so long is that every day I was seeing improvements and I had no expectations.  So the motivation comes, I think, from just having realistic goals and making small steps towards being successful.  If you take 20 years to get out of shape you’re not going to get back in shape in three weeks.  You’ve got to be progressive, you’re got to be incremental and you’re got to learn how to celebrate little successes, whether that’s loosing a pound or going five seconds faster in the mile, every little step towards success counts.”

<<Tim Bourquin>>: “Jenny, if someone is just starting out, because they’re listening to this at the beginning of the year, what’s more important, is it important that they just get out there and start to build some endurance or do they really need to concentrate on running technique while they’re building that endurance?”

<<Jenny Hadfield>>: “I think the most important thing is that they do a personal inventory of where they’re at, and we do this in the book for them and teach them to do that because most people what to start off with where they want to get to.  So its important to kind of do an inventory of what you’ve been doing activity wise and where you want to go, but start off with very gradual increments of improvements week to week, and that way your body adapts to the stresses of running or walking and you’re able to progress a lot more rapidly; and then the forms and that type of things comes along as your body gets stronger week to week.”

<<Tim Bourquin>>: “Is it something that they should be doing every day or every other day?”

<<Jenny Hadfield>>: “If they’re brand new to the sport of running every other day with some cross training, add a yoga class in between or strength training or cycling or some other activity that isn’t the same as running and that way their body is gong to adapt to the impact as well a lot faster, and we’re not talking about seven days a week, we’re talking about three to four.”

<<Tim Bourquin>>: “So I guess that goes hand in hand with setting the reasonable goals and don’t try to push yourself too hard initially.”

<<Jenny Hadfield>>: “Absolutely, absolutely.  I think the number one mistake and why most people drop out because they’ve done too much too soon.

<<Tim Bourquin>>: “Now John during the race, lets say they’ve achieved this and they’re going for their first marathon, everybody’s got those thoughts of, ‘What in the world am I doing out here?’  What kind of things can they tell themselves actually during that race to answer that question?”

<<John Bingham>>: “Well the great thing about being in the sport of running right now is that it is opened up for everybody.  If you go back 15 years marathons were shut down and timing was over and everything was out by four hours.  These days, if you look at the major marathons, something like the Rock N’ Roll San Diego, the mean finishing time is pretty close to five hours, so I think the message you want to give yourself when you’re standing there at the starting line is that you’re a part of this wonderful group of very social people and you’re not going to be last; that was the fear for a long time that you were going to be last.  So if you’re out there running even an 11, 12, 13 minute pace you’re going to be right in the middle of the pack, and I think the thing to remind yourself is that the pack is different than it used to be, not everybody is out there in nylon shorts running as hard as they can.  Its very social, very cooperative and a lot of fun.”

<<Tim Bourquin>>: “Now you both have probably different answers for this, but I’ll ask each of you individually, Jenny we’ll start with you; what portion of your overall training has to do with the mental aspect of it and then what is just the pure physical endurance?”

<<Jenny Hadfield>>: “That’s a great great question.  As you begin and progress and go through the training, I would say it’s a good 90% physical and 10% mental but on race day you flip-flop that around and its 90% mental and 10% physical.  You’re body is prepared, its ready to go and now you have to switch and use your mental skills.  That’s most of it when you’re out there on the course, its really important.”

<<Tim Bourquin>>: “John how about you?”

<<John Bingham>>: “Oh I think that’s true.  I think you’ve got to be physically prepared.  One of the things that I think is misunderstood about some of us that are slow and towards the back of the pack is that we’re not taking seriously the distance, whether that’s 5K, 10K, half marathon or full marathon or beyond, and I encourage everyone to understand it’s a serious undertaking.  You’re got to take the training seriously and then once you get there and you’re well prepared then I think you can have a great time.  I think then, once you’re standing at the starting line well prepared, who cares what happens, it’s just the joy of being out there on that day.”

<<Tim Bourquin>>: “Jenny, the discussion we’ve had with some other interviewees over the past couple of months is at the point where you decide that its time for you to get a coach and to get some help; some people who are new are thinking, ‘I don’t want to be a professional runner at any time, I really don’t need a coach.’  Do you think it be important to have somebody help you out from the beginning?”

<<Jenny Hadfield>>: “Absolutely.  If that’s the primary goal for themselves and they can economically afford somebody; its just like a personal trainer.  It’s going to take all the guess work out of their training, whether they want to finish their first marathon or half marathon, or qualify for Boston.  I work with folks nationwide, online, and I have all different skill levels and they really enjoy the monthly training programs that I give to them because they don’t have to think about what they’re doing.  I send them the schedule and boom they follow it.  If they have any questions along the way I answer those for them, so it takes all the guess work out and it allows them to train more efficiently.”

<<Tim Bourquin>>: “Another subject that’s come up Jenny is the diet portion or the nutrition of this because when people have these new year’s resolutions and they are just getting started, they’re not only changing their exercise but sometimes they’re making drastic changes in their diet which makes it tough to follow along and keep with the program as well.  Do you have any suggestions along those lines?”

<<Jenny Hadfield>>: “Absolutely.  That’s a great question as well.  You have to think of food as fuel.  If you’re not fueling your system for this new training program your energy levels are going to run down, your recovery rates are going to decease and your performance is going to drop.  You have to think of food as fuel, not as comfort, not as enjoyment; you actually need those carbohydrates to activity train and race so its really really important.”

<<Tim Bourquin>>: “Now have you seen people trying to do the low carb fad along with trying to increase endurance because it doesn’t seem like those two go hand in hand?”

<<Jenny Hadfield>>: “Sure, I’ve seen a lot of folks try to do that and what happens is they’re not able to train at the same levels, they’re not able to recover, they end up with injuries, they end up with burn-out.  I always use the analogy if you go to drive 300 or 400 miles in your car and you don’t fuel it for 300 miles worth of gas, you’re going to run out of gas and you’re not going to be able to drive your car; it’s the same thing with our bodies.”

<<Tim Bourquin>>: “John, how important is it, do you think, to have a training partner or running partner to help you along with that motivation side of things?”

<<John Bingham>>: “I think one of the best things you can do is get to be a part of some sort of formal group that’s training.  Part of it is peer pressure and to look at it in the negative, if you know people are going to be waiting for you and you know that they’re going through the same thing, I think it’s easier to be a part of it, and beyond that I think it’s just the sort of sharing thing.  It doesn’t have to be a group of 30 or 40 people, it can just be some folks in your neighborhood of two or three people that you know are going to be willing to support you.  Not everybody is going to have a great day everyday, so if you’re having a tough time getting out of bed and you know that that friend of yours is sitting there waiting you I think it will get you out more often than not.”

<<Tim Bourquin>>: “And goal wise John, what should somebody start with in terms of should they be talking about percentage or lopping time of each time they do a race; what should it be?”

<<John Bingham>>: “Well I think it’s pretty simple.  If you’re going to go out for your first long distance event, meaning half marathon or full marathon, you’re only goal should be finishing the same day you start.  You’ve gotta have almost that blank of a goal.  The hardest part, of course, is getting to the starting line.  If it’s a 5K or 10K the goal might simply be to just get through it and not be last.  In a lot of the early races for me I was right in front of the ambulance and if I moved up one person, if I was second from last for me it was like winning the goal medal.  So I think it’s a matter of defining your goals based on where you really are, not where you want to be, and then seeing if you can kind of chip away at those goals little by little.”

<<Tim Bourquin>>: “Jenny, one of the things I used to do when I was first getting started in running, and in mountain biking too which has kind of become a passion, is when I was getting to the point when I was starting to feel like I was running out of juice and I didn’t have enough energy, I would just find that next landmark and say, ‘I’m going to get to the top of this hill,’ and then after I got there I’d go to the next one; is there anything else we can do to motivate ourselves, to keep going and putting that one foot in front of the other?”

<<Jenny Hadfield>>: “Absolutely, that’s a great point.  I have done a lot of adventure racing in my time and a good friend of mine used to say when we were out on the trial for days that you can only eat elephant one bite at a time, you can’t eat it all at once, so breaking up that distance, whether you’re on a bike or on your feet running, into smaller more digestible pieces is the way to go from the very beginning rather than thinking of, ‘Okay, I’ve got 26.2 miles to go,’ break it up into miles, break it up into geographical locations on the course map and that way you’re mentally digesting those things, and also thinking about your form.  Relaxing your body and thinking about your form mentally really helps you become more efficient because we tend to get really tight when we get anxious out there.”

<<John Bingham>>: “Well you can see why we put the book together with two of us because this is exactly how it works where I’m encouraging anybody to get out there and do it, and then a coach will come in, like she has in this interview, and just tell them exactly the way they ought to do it.”

<<Tim Bourquin>>: “Right.  Well, of course, listeners can go to each of their sites.  We have linked them right below the link to this audio, but its www.johnbingham.com and www.jennyhadfield.com. 

I want to thank you both for joining us today.  I appreciate you taking the time to talk to us.”

<<John Bingham>>: “Thank you so much.  All the best.”

<<Jenny Hadfield>>: “Thank you.”

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